Any OPPOs have a turbocharged Miata?

"The Stig's former college room mate" (das-stig) 10/07/2016 at 11:28 • Filed to: None

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My wife has given me the green light to build my dream workshop. I currently do all my wrenching in a 3 bay garage, which is nice but not really big enough to do a major project and still have room for the daily drivers. So next spring the 40x60 pole barn goes up behind the house. To put that in perspective, the shop will be 2400 sq ft and the house is only 1200 sq ft.

Now that I’ll have the room for a major project, i’m looking to build a dedicated track car for HPDE. I’ve been toying around with a few ideas: C4/C5 Corvette, Fox Mustang, Audi S4, Neon SRT4, NA or NB Miata.

I’m leaning towards Miata for a few reasons:

They’re cheap to buy- A quick search of the List of Craig in my area shows decent vehicles for under $3500.

It probably wasn’t owned by a teenager and given questionable mods or severely abused. Clean, stock Fox bodies or SRT4s are few and far between.

It’s fairly reliable- Germans can have some issues, and repair costs can be high.

Consumables are cheap and should last longer- I’d much rather buy 15" tires than the 20" tires I currently buy, and I imagine brakes last considerably longer when you don’t have to use them as much.

Lastly, fastback Miatas look freaking awesome:

So this brings me to my one sticking point: POWER!!!! or lack there of. I don’t want a momentum car that just putters around the track. I like speed. And lots of it. I want to be able to hit 140+ on a straight.

I don’t want to build a V8 monster miata. Not for track use, anyway. I don’t want to upset the weight balance. Good chance with the heavier engine (even an aluminum 5.3 weighs more than a 1.8) and the added low end torque, the vehicle could exhibit some severe over steer issues. And it’s cost-prohibitive to do it properly. I’d use Flyin Miata’s kit versus backyard engineering my own.

So this leaves forced induction. Anyone turbo or supercharge their NA or NB? How much power are you making? What’s performance like? 0-60? Is 180-200 hp in a Miata enough to make it properly fast?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 11:32

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PAGING EX-MURDERSOFA JAKE

for Michigan > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 11:36

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Where do you live that you can find cheap, unmolested Miatas? Around here an example as you described goes for $5K for an NA, $8K for an NB. All the $3500 examples I’ve seen have been tastelessly modified or are at 200K+ miles and sketchy.

The Miata is the new 240SX.

Tripper > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 11:39

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Never owned a yata, but a friend of mine had an NA turbo miata...One of the scariest cars I have ever driven. So much power and so light, it was really rowdy. To the best of my recollection, HP was between 200-250. It also had an aggressive differential so that probably added to the rowdyness

Driving it reminded me of the first time you hit power band on a two-stroke dirtbike.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > for Michigan 10/07/2016 at 11:41

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Wait until the freezing temperatures of winter, you’ll see a manual softop for $2000 but that post won’t last a few days.

for Michigan > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) 10/07/2016 at 11:43

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I’ve never seen a Miata worth owning for less than $5K, even in February.

Nick Has an Exocet > Tripper 10/07/2016 at 11:43

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That sounds faaaaantastic.

1111111111111111111111 > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 11:59

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I’ve looked at the fm kit many times...I am hesitant to dump 8 grand into the project. If I go Exocet it’s a done deal...but then I’ve got a 20+k project and think why not just buy a faster car?

The Stig's former college room mate > for Michigan 10/07/2016 at 12:01

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Central New York. The small amount of snow we get here (avg 130 inches or so) relegates the Miata to a second vehicle or weekend toy. Almost no one has them as a DD. This keeps them out of the hands of young people that would abuse them, as most can’t afford to have 2 cars. Therefore, there are quite a few unmolested examples around.

Keep in mind that i’m looking for something to turn into a track car, so things like ripped convertible tops, faded paint and ratty interiors are of little concern to me. I’m only looking for solid mechanicals and no rust.

The Stig's former college room mate > 1111111111111111111111 10/07/2016 at 12:03

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exactly. for 20K i can buy a C5 Z06.

Needmoargarage > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 12:03

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Couple of thoughts here...I don’t know how much experience you have on track so bear with me.

If you want to learn to be an excellent driver, stick with a momentum car and avoid the forced induction for now. Honestly straights are the most boring part of the track, and it doesn’t really matter how fast you go. (Speaking from experience here.)

If you do end up turbocharging a Miata, prepare to lose a lot of what makes Miatas affordable and easy track cars. Transmissions, differentials, and engines become consumables. Your small inexpensive tires are now wider and significantly more expensive than stock Miata sizes. Start fiddling with wide tires and you need to play with suspension to avoid massive understeer. On top of that things never seem to quite go right at track days for home brew turbo Miatas.

That being said, you can build a really nice car with enough money and skill. Stick with low boost unless you are upgrading internals. My guess is you would probably easily spend 10-15k (including purchase of the car) to make a decently performing and reliable car.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 12:07

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Get an NA8 or an NB and use the flying Miata turbo setup. My turbo 1.6 NA made an estimated 145hp on 7 pounds of un-intercooled boost. It wasn’t fast, but it was fun. 200hp in a Miata seems to be the sweet spot for being fast without having so much power it becomes a pain to wrestle around the track.

fourvalleys > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 12:11

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Every time I’ve thought about a turbo Miata, I do some research about the heat soak issues it seems like many people have and it dissuades me. Maybe it’s not that big of an issue, but it always seems to come up when people talk about tracking a FI Miata.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > fourvalleys 10/07/2016 at 12:29

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There are a lot of “solutions” out there, but the consensus is that continued operation in boost will exceed the capacity of the stock cooling system in short order. Flyin Miata seems to advocate both an aluminum crossflow radiator and a coolant reroute. Combining that with cutting holes in the hood in the form of ducts or louvers seems to help, but there’s only so much area in the front of the car for both a radiator and an intercooler.

At the same time, Flyin Miata seems to have had a fair amount of success tracking NCs, which apparently don’t have the same cooling issues.

The Stig's former college room mate > Needmoargarage 10/07/2016 at 12:33

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I do 4-6 HPDE events a year, and have been doing them for 5 years.

Straights may be boring, but giving everyone a point-by and then catching them up in the corner gets old. And being the head of a train makes you feel like an ass.

I would upgrade parts as needed to make sure the drivetrain was able to take the added power.

I’m sure the widest tire i could fit under a miata (even with fender flares) would still cost less and last longer than the 275/35R20 i use now. Brakes are probably still cheaper too. I wouldn’t home brew the turbo. I’d get an engineered kit from someone like Flyin Miata.

My plan is to spend around $10k all said and done. From perusing the Flyin Miata webpage, it looks like I can build a decent NB for that.

handyjoe > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 12:33

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There’s a bunch of great engine swaps out there. Honda 4cyl and V6, GM 3.6L V6, etc.

The Stig's former college room mate > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 10/07/2016 at 12:38

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That was what I was thinking. A mazdaspeed NB has 178hp and is good for high 6 second 0-60 runs. I figure 200hp and 200 lbs of weight reduction should get it into the 5's. That’s plenty quick.

The Stig's former college room mate > handyjoe 10/07/2016 at 12:55

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well son of a bitch. I was familiar with Honda K series swaps but i didn’t think that netted enough bang for the buck to make it worth while. I was not aware of the J series swap. Just googled it and came across superfastmiatas.com. $3200 for the kit, and car-part.com says there are engines in my neighborhood for under $300. I think we may have a winner here. 240hp stock. yup, that will do. And apparently the weight is basically unchanged.

The Stig's former college room mate > for Michigan 10/07/2016 at 14:57

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here’s a nice looking NB off the local list of craig:

https://syracuse.craigslist.org/cto/5803688546.html

for Michigan > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 15:10

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Nice.

daender > The Stig's former college room mate 10/07/2016 at 16:16

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200 hp in a Miata is boatloads of fun. A friend of mine has a turbo NB1 and it is bonkers fast even on a low to mild-boost setting. It hits that 130 mph limiter scarily-quickly.

Here’re some thoughts if you go boost:

-If you’re looking for more than 230hp then consider a 6-speed car. Stock internals start to go out at about 250 hp.

-You’re going to need to swap out the rear-end for a lower ratio, preferably for the Aussie-spec 3.63 rear end. Best paired with the 6-speed. Also consider nabbing the thicker half-shafts from a Miataspeed part-out. Gearing-wise, the 3.63 with the 6-speed is a solid combination if you want to achieve speeds higher than 130 but if you’re on a budget than try researching if a 5-speed with the OEM 3.90 rear-end (‘99-’02 spec) will get you there.

-NB1 motor is boost-friendly over the higher-compression NB2 motor. That said, I recommend the NB2 headlight and nose conversion to get the factory project headlights.

-Vent the crap out of the hood for improved cooling and reduced drag.

-Most importantly, DO NOT GET ADDICTED TO MOAR BOOST. I mentioned a friend with a turbo NB1, he blew up his original motor on stock internals because he kept turning up the boost.